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Psychedelicatessen

Topic: The Vosse Posse



Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 06:27:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Vosse Posse OR Summertime Friends?

Siegel got shut out by Brian. Anderle told Gaines he got fed up with Brian's unprofessional behavior. Vosse left to help organize Monterey Pop Fest. My read is that Parks "left" because he was done as the lyricist, he hitched his wagon to Waronker and he felt Brian was domineering and Brian's personal and professional behavior didn't sit well. Parks "quit" because of his and Brian's divergent artistic sensibilities which was reinforced by the other Boys' siding with Brian and he already had a contract with Warners anyway. That's my interpretation anyway.

I think they all were sincere, even if it would further their careers, and wanted to be helpful and still do respect Brian and his talent very much but bottom line they didn't hang. Like Chuck Britz said, Brian would take input from anyone, his dad, the Boys, collaborators, even guys off the street, but Brian always went with or back to what Brian already knew he wanted in the first place, inspite of any input. That must be what happened with SMiLE, Brian tried it and *he* didn't like it, period, end of story, because if he had it would have been released to Brian's liking despite any "input" from any quarter. Instead Brian went on to Smiley, which was also all Brian's show with only suggestions from the Boys which Brian would try but only kept if it served what he already wanted. No one got Brian to do or not to do what Brian did or didn't want to do musically, not in 1966 and 67 anyway. I think? [breathing hard and sweating]

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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:48:41 -0500
Subject: Re:Vosse Posse OR Summertime Friends?

> The myth has it that there was tension between the Beach Boys versus
> the Vosse Posse.

My read is the Posse "thought" the Boys didn't approve of them much but that feeling was based on impression from next to no contact with most of the Boys. The Boys they did get to know they liked. Anderle had contact and he liked the Boys and thought they were as cool as anyone on the "scene" and found they had tastes and goals in common according to the Anderle/Williams interview.

> My general question is: on average, how long had each of these people
> in the Posse really 'known' Brian? Ultimately, a lot of these
> friendships/business teamings disintegrated, but I guess I'm trying to
> figure out to what end certain people really were able to speak as if
> they 'knew' Brian and 'knew' what he needed best, in apparent
> contradiction to the Beach Boys.
> Take for instance David Anderle - has Cam documented the beginning and
> endpoint of that association?

Somebody may know better but here is my take at the moment. Anderle apparently occasionally began showing up at Pet Sounds sessions bringing along Hutton and Parks around February or March '66. Anderle would occasionally take visitors, such as Parks, to Brian's house through that Summer. Vosse and Siegel got brought around in late September/October. I'm not sure about Robbins but I believe his connection is through his association with Parks. Somars was Anderle's pal and Parks' lawyrer. The Posse were all longtime friends to each other but didn't really have a prior friendship with Brian. Not even through Loren Schwartz, Schwartz and Brian were longtime friends but Brian was almost never present, and never very long, at Schwartz's "salons" were the others would mingle.

None of them were really "tight" with Brian until the Fall of '66. I think Parks job was over by early November and he went his own way and visited Brian only a few times after that at the studio that Winter and Spring until March '67. I don't have a sense that Robbins was around long after Parks left in the Fall of '66 but at least until Nov 16. Siegel was gone before the end of 1966. Anderle was gone in late April or early May '67. Vosse left before Anderle in March or April '67 but continued to have some contact with Brian until the beach Boys cancelled out of the music-festival-whose-name-I've-forgotten.

> But Anderle himself made an interesting statement in the
> Anderle/Williams interviews, of which I'll loosely paraphrase: "When
> we left, there was nothing there to catch him, no foundation."
> What I'm getting at is: were these people "fair-weather friends", the
> sort that Brian indicted on PET SOUNDS?
> Did The Posse let Brian down?
> (I attribute mistakes to youthful folly, immaturity, $, and dope.)
> Thoughts?

Maybe Anderle was speaking from his own youthful self-centered folly believing Brian had no foundation without them, when in fact Brian's foundation was the same before, during and after them, in my opinion.

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Message: 3 Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 14:14:46 -0000
Subject: Vosse Posse OR Summertime Friends?

I want to take a look at what might be misconstrued as heresy in pro-Brian circles re SMILE: The myth has it that there was tension between the Beach Boys versus the Vosse Posse. My general question is: on average, how long had each of these people in the Posse really 'known' Brian? Ultimately, a lot of these friendships/business teamings disintegrated, but I guess I'm trying to figure out to what end certain people really were able to speak as if they 'knew' Brian and 'knew' what he needed best, in apparent contradiction to the Beach Boys. Take for instance David Anderle - has Cam documented the beginning and endpoint of that association?

and that having been said, it boils down to: were these friendships substantive enough and genuine enough to have stood for something beyond (a) people who wanted to be near a Genius and smoke free hash, (b) and/or who wanted to use the Genius to advance their careers.

I'm trying to figure out (as I wrestle with these thoughts and questions) just how detrimental or beneficial these 'friends' were. Intellectually, they were alleged saviors -- giving Brian books, rapping about philosophy, heavy talks in the pool, etc.

But Anderle himself made an interesting statement in the Anderle/Williams interviews, of which I'll loosely paraphrase: "When we left, there was nothing there to catch him, no foundation." What I'm getting at is: were these people "fair-weather friends", the sort that Brian indicted on PET SOUNDS? Did The Posse let Brian down? (I attribute mistakes to youthful folly, immaturity, $, and dope.) Thoughts?




If you have any comments on this topic, psychedelismile@yahoo.com and I will try to promptly post any interesting replies.