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Psychedelicatessen

Topic: Yet More Heroes & Villains chat



Date: 05/9/01

Subject: H&V DATES -- corrections and addendums

The December date is just a guess, but it's definitely PRE-Jan. 27th -- it has the same vocal phrasing of certain words but is minus the Mike vocal. The Brian vocal isn't identical, either.

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Replying to:

>No, but the instrumentation MORE than fits, it's exact, and we've used this before as definate proof. I think we can really safely say this is the correct date.<

That's why I think it and Barnyard were recorded on 10/20 but I was hoping some tapebox dates or something had confirmed it.

>I THINK...but am not sure since I have the vinyl...that it's on the Vigotone 2-cd set.<

Thanks, I'll check that out. How do we know it's from December?

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Replying to:

>>> The session on Dec. 22 was from 6 to 11:30 pm, with an hour-long break from 9 to 10 p.m. I think there's a very good chance that this is the session Paul's referring to.

Then I think there is also a very good chance indeed that the connected "part 2" variation, and indeed all the others, were recorded 'round about this time at the various "INSERT" sessions. Mystery: why are they logged, then, with the master number of the lost tracking session on the 19th, if they do not use this tracking?

>Verse tracking from "Cantina" and the single version: Oct. 20th, 1966.<

>>>> The instrumentation fits but has this been archivally confirmed?

No, but the instrumentation MORE than fits, it's exact, and we've used this before as definate proof. I think we can really safely say this is the correct date.

"H&V Chorus" (from the single): Vocals and organ overdub added in July at the home studio.<

>> This and the other stuff that is attributed to July '67, has it been confirmed?

Not all of it archivally but rule of thumb: if it features the Baldwin organ with that tone and that balance, it's home studio.

>>> What does this refer to?

I THINK...but am not sure since I have the vinyl...that it's on the Vigotone 2-cd set.

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Replying to:

** "My Children...often wise" -- someone help me here, the session was a year from the time that the Boys were in japan... **

An exact date? Somebody's going to have to dig that up out of saved posts, because I don't remember it. But let's see if I can deduce it again:

The Boys were on the Japan tour from Jan. 5 to Jan. 24, 1966. The only documented "H&V" session we have during that same period a year later is on January 20, 1967, which was logged as a vocal session with six Beach Boys in attendance. So that's got to be it, right?

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Replying to:

Alright, I'm going to attempt to post an omnibus list of H&V sessions and either their confirmed dates or their approximate dates with a brief explanation as to why I think they go there. Arguments with the approximate dates are welcome.

Credit: While I've spent a lot of time hashing this over with 'em, the majority of the cool dating match-ups belong to Messrs. Mott, Elliott, Boyd, Bernsand, Gwatney, and Mark Linnett working behind the scenes. Mine's a lot of the guesswork about the undated fragments.

If I miss any fragments, someone point 'em out to me.

Someone also should archive this.

Verse tracking from "Cantina" and the single version: Oct. 20th, 1966.

"Oscillator" verse tracking (similar to the above but not the same): undated, probably prior to Oct. 20th.

Barnyard: Very probably Oct 20, 1966

I'm In Great Shape (aka "eggs and grits"): Possibly Oct. 27, 1966.

Tag to Part 1: Jan. 3rd, 1967

"Bridge to Indians" (aka "ascending ahhs"): Jan. 3rd, 1967

"P.U. to 3rd Verse" (also aka "ascending ahhs"): Jan. 3rd, 1967

"Bag of Tricks" (aka "alt whistles"): Jan. 3rd, 1967

"Do A Lot" (aka "mama says," piano and drum version): Jan. 3rd, 1967

"My Children...often wise" -- someone help me here, the session was a year from the time that the Boys were in japan, Brad figured this date out at one point...

"Bicycle Rider" (logged as "part 2"): Jan. 5th, 1967

"In The Cantina": Jan. 27th, 1967, presumably Mike-only vocals (SOT 17). Brian vocal overdubbed between Jan. 27th and Feb. 10th.

"Dum dum" (whistling part): I'm saying Jan. 27th, 1967. David Leaf: "A version of this ('Whistle In') was recorded on 1/27/67, the same day as the "Cantina" section of "Heroes and Villains". It's possible that at one point, "Whistle In" was part of "Heroes and Villains."

Tag to "Cantina" version: recorded Nov. 30th as "part 2" of "Old Master Painter." Re-recorded Feb. 28th, 1967, but this recording (featuring an additional Carl vocal) has never been bootlegged.

"Country & Western Theme" (logged as "prelude to fade"): Feb. 15th, 1967. Followed by tack piano version of "H&V Chorus".

"H&V Intro": March 1st, 1967, and possibly Feb. 29th and March 2nd as well. Logged (along with the fade re-record) as "part 2." Several versions (including one with tubular bells) on the same reel. No connection to "Fire."

"Part 2 Variations" (including "How I Love My Girl," the so-called "swedish (garbled)" section, and 4 variations of "doot doot doot, Heroes and Villains" chorus): I'm guessing EITHER December, 1966 or late-January, 1967. Toby points out that Williams claimed to have attended the "swine" section session, and dates it to Christmas Eve, however, no session is logged on this date. Presumably the associated variation was recorded the same day, since these sections overlap. A BW mix of 3 of the 4 exists, I'm dating it to January 1967.

"H&V Chorus" (from the single): An initial version was tracked Feb. 1967, precise date unknown. Vocals and organ overdub added in July at the home studio.

"Sunny Down Snuff": Unknown exactly. Some folks date it to July, at the home studio, others to December or January, claiming the sound on the sessions is identical to the studio sound of the "part 2 variations". Clearly Van Dyke's lyrics...

"My Children...wise": July, home studio.

"Soul Made Beautiful": (the section preceding the "ascending ahhs" on the GV Box Set "Sections" mix) Unknown.

Verse Vocals:


- earliest version, from acetate: December, 1966, Brian only.
- first version of Brian/Mike -- pre-Jan. 27th, as mixes exist from Jan. 27th
- later versions of Brian/Mike and Brian/Mike/Al: between Jan. 27th and Feb. 10th
- Cantina version: Feb. 10th
- SOT 17 version: (partially used on single): Feb. 1967, and that's just a guess
- Single version: part of the previous version, and partly a re-record, presumably from July, 1967

THREESCORE AND FIVE:
- Brian/Mike variations same as above
- Cantina version same as above

STAND OR FALL:
- July 1967

Unaccounted for:

- Dec. 19th session, with Hal Blaine on drums and large string section
- Oct. 17th "I'm In Great Shape" vocal session with all the Beach Boys including Bruce
- maybe a minute's worth on the Oct. 27th session
- the lost May '66 session
- several "Insert" vocal sessions from December (these are probably the "part 2" variations)

What have I missed? Discuss.




If you have any comments on this topic, psychedelismile@yahoo.com and I will try to promptly post any interesting replies.